Nationalism or religion?

@Akbar2thegreat said in #20:
> It turns out that India has second most Muslims in the world.
And they have the second most people in the world. What's your point?

Hmm, it depends. Nationalism is better but time consuming because it unites the people of different religions as well since it doesn't focuses on religion but on a Nation's identity. Whereas if we try to control people through religion then it is not necessary that the people would have much devotion towards there country and hence will be busy practicing there own religion only, hence religion is possible only for the countries that officially adheres to that religion. Take India itself, here majority of the Muslims keeps there religion above the nation despite of consuming the resources of this nation itself according to surveys and ground reporting.

#5 I think it is wrong, Hindus votes for the BJP not because BJP appeases it, it is because the Indian National Congress and other opposition parties are anti-hindus and openly appeases Muslims by bringing welfare schemes for them. Whereas BJP never brought any public welfare schemes for particularly Hindus, all welfare schemes are for all religions.

#14 if you think Hindus are shunning there minorities then just compare the growth in number of hindu temples in Pakistan, bangladesh and afghanistan to the growth of number of Masjids in India, Pakistan had 1300 temples during 1947 of which majority have been converted to masjid whereas only 30 working temples are there in Pak currently. Just compare the teachings taught in a Gurukul (Hindu schools) to the teaching taught in an Indian madarsa (Indian Islamic Schools), In an Indian madarsa the ideology of Ghazwa-e-hind is being perpetrated in the minds of Muslim youth which means making India an Islamic state by doing mass killings of Hindus and Hindus are kafirs, whereas in a Gurukul hindus are taught the ideology of Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam. Which means that whole world is our family. Hope the Indian govt takes action against such thought provocative teachings.

We are this much minority friendly that daily more than 10-12 Muslim politicians makes fun of Hindu gods and goddesses but we didn't do any riots like the Muslims in India did injuring hundreds of police officers during when Nupur Sharma stated some facts. Muslims of India are given more rights than a Hindu under the article 29 and 30 of the Indian constitution, Hindus have been the victim of majority of the massacres in India till date en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_India, more than 200,000 hindus are forcefully converted to Islam in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh and India itself every year, whereas this number is very very very small to the number of muslims converted every year of which majority of them converts by there choice. this is how Hindus are dominant in India...
I'm not saying that this does not happens with muslims, there are many hindu nationalists who have given speeches against Islam but they're very less in number as compared to Muslim hatespeech givers, and the government has taken action against all of them. For example- the arrest of Yati Narsinghanand Saraswati. If a hindu commits crime in modi govt then he/she is also sent behind bars, whereas during INC if any terrorist attack used to happen, for example- 2008 Mumbai attack, then Hindus are blamed for it even when it is done by the Pakistani Terrorist organisations...

@Jaysheelchess2009 have you considered that all these violences wouldn't occur if a minority wasn't oppressed by a majority (which of course does not justify the massacres themselves)? And in a country where 80% are Hindus and 15% are Muslims, and where the government openly has a Hinduistic ideology, which side are more likely to be the oppressed and the oppressor?

@clousems said in #21:
> And they have the second most people in the world. What's your point?
It clearly shows that India is multi-religious country and hence religion is no means to control people. Nationalism will keep the people normal and united. But sadly, nationalism has lost from India now.

In my view: Religion. Nationalism is "good" enough to create a We-vs-them narrative which can be used to bring people in line and deter them from criticizing your leaders or your own tribe.

Religion on the other hand can be (and is) used to influence the whole life of people. A God in the shape of his priests as his representatives on Earth can set up any arbitrary and irrational rule that reaches deep into the life of the people (like for example sexual orientation) and it is not to be questioned. Why? Because it comes from God.

@Akbar2thegreat said in #24:
> It clearly shows that India is multi-religious country and hence religion is no means to control people. Nationalism will keep the people normal and united. But sadly, nationalism has lost from India now.

There are a few of errors with this.

Firstly, it turns out that India does NOT have the second most Muslims in the world-- that would be Pakistan.

Second, minority religions are often used to exploit both nationalism and zealotry, since these ideas (especially nationalism) require an enemy to be effective. Think of the anti-Semitic policies of the Third Reich. These policies wouldn't work without a sizable Jewish population to target-- if Germany had no Jews, Hitler would've found some other minority to attack.

For a more Indian-oriented comparison, take Aurangzeb, who persecuted Hindus. While I'm not familiar with the actual numbers, I have to imagine that Hindus made up a sizable portion of the Indian populace during the Mughal empire's reign, despite the state religion.

The "us versus them" ideology is what leads to a strong nationalist sentiment. Take away fear and hatred of other cultures, and nationalism is no longer a unifying force. In other words: nationalism's the peasant mob in an old-timey monster movie, banding together to kill an (often imaginary) monster because of fear.

PS: India is currently one of the most nationalism-oriented countries on the planet. It is certainly not "lost from India".
PPS: You really downvoted 21?

I like chicken wings

@FC-in-the-UK said in #23:
> @Jaysheelchess2009 have you considered that all these violences wouldn't occur if a minority wasn't oppressed by a majority (which of course does not justify the massacres themselves)? And in a country where 80% are Hindus and 15% are Muslims, and where the government openly has a Hinduistic ideology, which side are more likely to be the oppressed and the oppressor?
what problem do you have from India ??
why do you always poke your nose in Indian Government?
try to understand its our country, our government ,our lives ......then why are you having problem?
And yeah India belongs to HINDUS ... is you want proof then .......India is also known as Hindustan

@FC-in-the-UK, Whenever there is a violence done against Hindus in India, the guilty are found to be linked with terrorist organisations or Indian organisations which are against Hinduism, such as Student Islamic Movement of India. The rioters when in custody have agreed that they did this since the sharia law wasn't being obeyed or want to fill fear inside the Hindus or doesn't have any reason, this has been seen in many European countries too nowadays. For ex- Moplah Massacre in Kerala killing 1500+ hindus was done to make kerala an islamic state. You must be knowing what happened with hindus in Kashmir, a place which had 90% muslim population during 1980s and 4-5% Hindu population, How did Hindus oppressed Muslims there? there are many regions in India where Hindu population is very low such as Lakshadweep, Kashmir, Many districts in Bengal etc. But here as well there have been attacks and riots against Hindus. If you think visiting temples means the govt is supporting hinduism then it's wrong, because the opposition and also many old leaders like Nehru etc also did that. One more thing, even if we assume that they were getting oppressed, then doing mass murdering of the people of other community is not a solution to it.

It is not necessary that if a community is in majority then it can only oppress the minorities. According to your profile it seems you belong to UK, so you must be knowing that when South Africa was being ruled by the Britain a
very small population of Whites was oppressing an absolute majority population of blacks. I cannot even describe how oppressive it was. Take an example of India as well, The first Mughal invasion in India was done by Ghuri during the 12th century, he deceived the king Prithviraj Chauhan and that was the time when Islam entered India. During that time Hindus constituted 95-98% of the Indian population and the rest were Buddhist, Jains the religions originated from India. During when Mughals were ruling India, an additional tax was taken from Hindus just for being Hindus, Hindus were forcefully converted to Islam (Today majority of the Indian muslims are converts), Hindu women were sold in vaishya bazaar, Our scriptures, the proofs of Hinduism everything was burnt! Nalanda University consisting of more than 8-9 million books was set to fire for 6 months, more than 30,000-40,000 temples were demolished and masjids were built on them. But the majority population which was of Hindu remained silent to the very small population of muslims.

Divyashree, you missed something. well India should belong to Hindus because we gave away Pakistan and Bangladesh to the Muslims but, if India belongs to the hindus then India also adheres the Hindu culture which tells us about the "Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam" which means whole world is our family and hence we had shown no problem to the Muslims who were left here after partition whereas just see the drastic decrease in population of Hindus and hindu temples in Bangladesh and Pakistan whereas muslim population in India is constantly rising. This also shows how minority friendly Hindus are.

@DIVYASHREE1234 said in #28:
> what problem do you have from India ??
> why do you always poke your nose in Indian Government?
> try to understand its our country, our government ,our lives ......then why are you having problem?
> And yeah India belongs to HINDUS ... is you want proof then .......India is also known as Hindustan
@Jaysheelchess2009 said in #29:
> @FC-in-the-UK, Whenever there is a violence done against Hindus in India, the guilty are found to be linked with terrorist organisations or Indian organisations which are against Hinduism, such as Student Islamic Movement of India. The rioters when in custody have agreed that they did this since the sharia law wasn't being obeyed or want to fill fear inside the Hindus or doesn't have any reason, this has been seen in many European countries too nowadays. For ex- Moplah Massacre in Kerala killing 1500+ hindus was done to make kerala an islamic state. You must be knowing what happened with hindus in Kashmir, a place which had 90% muslim population during 1980s and 4-5% Hindu population, How did Hindus oppressed Muslims there? there are many regions in India where Hindu population is very low such as Lakshadweep, Kashmir, Many districts in Bengal etc. But here as well there have been attacks and riots against Hindus. If you think visiting temples means the govt is supporting hinduism then it's wrong, because the opposition and also many old leaders like Nehru etc also did that. One more thing, even if we assume that they were getting oppressed, then doing mass murdering of the people of other community is not a solution to it.
>
> It is not necessary that if a community is in majority then it can only oppress the minorities. According to your profile it seems you belong to UK, so you must be knowing that when South Africa was being ruled by the Britain a18:21
> very small population of Whites was oppressing an absolute majority population of blacks. I cannot even describe how oppressive it was. Take an example of India as well, The first Mughal invasion in India was done by Ghuri during the 12th century, he deceived the king Prithviraj Chauhan and that was the time when Islam entered India. During that time Hindus constituted 95-98% of the Indian population and the rest were Buddhist, Jains the religions originated from India. During when Mughals were ruling India, an additional tax was taken from Hindus just for being Hindus, Hindus were forcefully converted to Islam (Today majority of the Indian muslims are converts), Hindu women were sold in vaishya bazaar, Our scriptures, the proofs of Hinduism everything was burnt! Nalanda University consisting of more than 8-9 million books was set to fire for 6 months, more than 30,000-40,000 temples were demolished and masjids were built on them. But the majority population which was of Hindu remained silent to the very small population of muslims.
>
> Divyashree, you missed something. well India should belong to Hindus because we gave away Pakistan and Bangladesh to the Muslims but, if India belongs to the hindus then India also adheres the Hindu culture which tells us about the "Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam" and hence we had shown no problem to the Muslims who were left here after partition whereas just see the drastic decrease in population of Hindus and hindu temples in Bangladesh and Pakistan. This also shows how minority friendly Hindus are.
sorry i forgot ........... but its True